SPIEGEL ONLINE:

 Mr. Sterzing, Hamas has won the election in Palestine. The organization is responsible for dozens of terrorist attacks against Israeli civilians. Are there signs of a storm in the Middle East?

Sterzing: I don't think so. In the last one or two years Hamas has taken an increasingly pragmatic course and shown itself to be more politically moderate. With its participation in the elections, it allowed itself to be integrated into the Palestinian structures.

SPIEGEL ONLINE: Hamas has undergone a process of moderation?

Sterzing: It has undergone a clear course of integration on its own accord. Ten years ago it rejected participation in parliamentary elections. Now it is part of an institution, the product of the very Oslo process which it had always rejected. Hamas has already been represented in communal and city politics; it has mayors in office. It has already started the process of becoming part of government institutions. And for that reason it has become necessary for it to change its political opinions.

SPIEGEL ONLINE: How has the Fatah-dominated Palestinian Authority reacted to this new course of Hamas?

Sterzing: There was an integration strategy on the part of the Palestinian Authority as well. President Mahmoud Abbas said, 'Why shouldn't they reform themselves in the way we at the PLO reformed ourselves over 20 years?'

SPIEGEL ONLINE: Hamas still profits by the fact that they have a more radical image than the Fatah movement. So why should they undergo a process like the Palestine Liberation Organization and renounce violence?

Sterzing: Already in the past months Hamas has become a stabilizing force. It has been the Fatah-allied group al-Aqsa Brigade which has been responsible for violence and attack. Hamas has been able to maintain the ceasefire. It always had its ear close to the ground. Opinion polls show that the Palestinians want negotiations and a two-state solution. If Hamas were to carry out new terrorist attacks and show an uncompromisingly negative attitude towards Israel, it would isolate itself.

SPIEGEL ONLINE: Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh said as he cast his vote that weapons and parliamentary representation are not contradictory. One can hardly expect a renunciation of violence.

Sterzing: Nonetheless, Hamas is not only a terrorist organisation, it is also a political force. It is a social movement, which builds kindergartens and provides the hungry with food. This movement has of course the Islamization of society close to heart, and it has a military arm. But one cannot compare it with a terror organization like al-Qaida.

SPIEGEL ONLINE: For the victims it doesn’t make a difference who blows them up.

Sterzing: In the question of violence one must indeed differentiate between terror against Israeli civilians and the legitimate violence against an occupation, which does not contradict international law. There is an illegal occupation here. Abbas too has always said that Palestinians would not lay down their weapons. It is not just to demand only from one party that they lay down their weapons. That would be illusory. Of course one must also demand from Hamas that it swears off the use of terror.

SPIEGEL ONLINE: Aren't the distinctions between violence and terror not somewhat artificial? Violence in Palestine is expressed mainly in terrorist acts.

Sterzing: Absolutely not true. In the last months before the withdrawal from Gaza there had been many attacks against Israeli soldiers. That is the occupational power. The settlers are a different problem. From the Israeli point of view these are civilians, from the Palestinian point of view these are occupiers in civilian clothes, who are taking away their land. Although I find these attacks on Israeli soldiers politically nonsensical and ethically unjustified, according to international law they are legitimate.

SPIEGEL ONLINE: For the USA and Israel, Hamas is a terrorist organization and as such an unacceptable partner in negotiations. The EU as well has announced that without an explicit renunciation of violence there will be no more money to build a Palestinian nation.

Sterzing: The calls for boycotts and threats were counterproductive. That was like the West campaigning for Hamas from abroad. The consequence has been that the Palestinians have now closed ranks, but to the benefit of Hamas. One should learn from that. Punitive measures based on the election results will only solidify support for Hamas. Neither Europe nor the US is interested in eliminating financial help for the Palestinians. A moratorium would be a catastrophic for the population. The EU would do well to set precise conditions for further help and to define the terms of discussion with Hamas.

SPIEGEL ONLINE: In Israel there can be no talk of such support or willingness for dialogue. An advisor of Sharon spoke of circumstances like in the year 1933. A terrorist association has been elected democratically. It is its goal to eliminate Israel.

Sterzing: Israel is in the middle of elections, which explains why such historically untenable comparisons get made. But that aside, I would also not advise immediately taking up discussions with Hamas. There must be a rejection of terror and the acceptance of a two-state solution.

SPIEGEL ONLINE: A two-state solution predicates that Hamas accepts Israel. But incoming Hamas parliamentarian Mahmoud Zahar said at a campaign appearance in Gaza that Hamas will not recognize Israel and that there will not be a revision of the charta which calls for the destruction of the Jewish state.  He mentioned that the election program which rejects terror is only valid for four years. And further, he stated Israel cannot be destroyed from one day to the next anyway.

Sterzing: If we have an interest in peace in the Middle East, we must negotiate. There were negotiations with the PLO before it had recognized Israel. Until it did, there were all sorts of intermediary formulations. We must see that Hamas already has a positive development behind it. Now we have to give political support to this development.

SPIEGEL ONLINE: Shouldn’t one support Fatah in opposition?

Sterzing: President Abbas has been undermined whenever possible. For a year he wrung his hands, calling for substantial negotiations. Israel always refused. The present result is also a result of that refusal. Abbas declared the end of the intifada, he agreed to the ceasefire. All of that found no response from the Israeli side.

SPIEGEL ONLINE: From the Israeli perspective Abbas was an unsuccessful president because he didn’t manage to disarm the radicals.

Sterzing: Clearly Fatah failed to do a lot of its homework. On the other hand Mahmoud Abbas couldn’t have disarmed Hamas and other groups. It would have meant civil war, and the outcome would have been totally unclear.

SPIEGEL ONLINE: Is there an advantage to Hamas forming the government? It is seen as more predictable than the fractious, undisciplined Fatah.

Sterzing: Fatah truly has no clear line. Hamas was able to keep its armed members under control. In the last few weeks Hamas was also the guarantor of the elections, unlike Fatah. Fighting corruption, fixing mismanagement and stamping out nepotism were all Hamas themes in the election. In certain areas Hamas can really be a partner for reform.

SPIEGEL ONLINE: Hamas as a motor for democracy? Recently the Iranian president Mahmoud Ahmadinejad met in Damascus with leaders of the radical Islamist Palestinian movements. He also talked to the leader of Hamas, Khaled Mashel. Ahmadinejad wants to erase Israel from the map. Such a meeting is hardly an indication of a peaceful future.

Sterzing: The majority opinion within Hamas is not uncontested. There is considerable opposition. Above all expatriate leaders like Mashel belong to the bitterest opponents of moderation. But moderation is supported by the majority within the Palestinian territories.

SPIEGEL ONLINE: Don’t the moderate forces serve the radical ones? The money for Hamas charities comes from Iran and Saudi Arabia. One suspects the social programs are first and foremost a way to win followers.

Sterzing: It is the other way around. The Islamic resistance -- which "Hamas" means in translation -- is an off-shoot of the Muslim Brotherhood which began in Egypt. Its priority was its social work. The motivation behind the founding of Hamas was also primarily social. It was not motivated by terror or armed resistance.

SPIEGEL ONLINE: But surely the acceptance of Israel's right to exist is also an important element in creating a socially just world.