SPIEGEL:

Mr. Prime Minister, the signing of the EU constitution in Rome is due in no small part to the Spaniards coming on board. Now you are the first head of state to schedule a referendum on ratification. Why the hurry?

Zapatero: The European constitution represents an achievement by the citizens of Europe. It is a milestone. We Spaniards are supporters of the European movement and defenders of the concept of the constitutional state. Because of our history, however, we were later than others in getting our own constitution, which occurred after Franco's death, and were also late in becoming part of Europe. For this reason, we now want to be the first country to hold a referendum and, in February, to set an example and encourage other member states to follow suit.

SPIEGEL: The new president of the European Commission, Durão Barroso, was forced to give in to the European parliament, and will now replace a few commissioners. Is this producing a crisis in the European Union's institutions?

Zapatero: Europe undoubtedly faces some difficult tasks. It has certainly established a political structure. However, a society of European citizens must now develop in concert with the new members.

SPIEGEL: That's precisely the problem. Europe keeps getting bigger. Doesn't this necessarily take place at the expense of the preservation of depth and identity?

Zapatero: No. When various countries join forces voluntarily, this brings more freedom and progress. Europe must have faith in the prospect of becoming the most important global power in 20 years, because it has the best opportunities to do so.

SPIEGEL: That's exactly what European heads of state were bragging about four years ago in Lisbon, when they announced that the EU would surpass the United States as an economic power by 2010. The outgoing president of the commission, Romano Prodi, has now said that this project was a major failure.

Zapatero: What do you want? The Euro is strong. The members that were having economic difficulties are recovering, as demonstrated by the German and French economies. If we can manage to become more dynamic and productive, that is, invest more in research and education, the European Union will undoubtedly assume the leadership role. After all, being a leader means maintaining growth and social cohesion at the same time.

SPIEGEL: So far, Europe hasn't even been able to resolve military problems on its own territory. And we still need the Americans in the Balkans.

Zapatero: Of course, it will take some time until we develop a unified defense policy. That can only happen once we've reached a consensus on a common foreign policy. The constitution is an important step in this direction. We will already have a foreign service for the EU in 15 to 20 years.

SPIEGEL: The EU has been politically split since the Iraq crisis began, a situation to which your predecessor, José Maria Aznar, contributed with his exaggerated transatlantic obsequiousness.

Zapatero: Well, things have changed. Spain is on better terms than ever with France and Germany. This is important, because those are the two countries that consistently pushed for European unification. As the EU expands eastward, Spain can serve as an example of how successful the Union is. We experienced strong growth and rapid development …

SPIEGEL: ... with billions in subsidies from Brussels …

Zapatero: ... I was about to say that our success was mainly the result of European solidarity. Since I have been at the head of the administration, I have taken many opportunities to publicly express my gratitude to Germany. Thanks to the money contributed by the Germans, my daughters are growing up under far better conditions than I or my father did. Germany is Europe's biggest country and industrial power. From the perspective of an outside observer, it remains politically and economically strong.

SPIEGEL: Are the Germans so consumed with self-doubt at this time?

Zapatero: Nowadays, many Germans feel less powerful than they actually are. They have to regain their self-confidence. This is the decisive factor in bringing about a recovery. Europe must now demonstrate solidarity with Germany, and it should not forget that the Germans had to go through a difficult process of reunification.

SPIEGEL: Subsidies from Brussels are about to come to an end. Is Spain now prepared to join the ranks of the donor countries?

Zapatero: The Spaniards know that the time is approaching when they will have to share the assistance they once received themselves with other countries, such as Bulgaria, Hungary and Poland.

SPIEGEL: Is that a reason to be proud or concerned?

Zapatero: It's simply a question of the right thing to do. Spain has grown. There are those who are less well-off than we are, and they need help. It's just as important for all of us to help make sure that the German economy once again becomes Europe's economic engine. I am convinced that we will be able to come to terms on the new financing scenario.

SPIEGEL: The EU's newest eastern European members are using tax dumping practices to recruit thousands of jobs from the old EU, and are even getting subsidies from Brussels for their trouble. France and Germany want to address the problem by introducing minimum tax rates. Is Spain in favor of this approach?

Zapatero: When Spain joined the EU, our wages were also very low. However, the decision to change business locations is not as heavily dependent on costs as on technological competency and levels of education. The countries in the East are competitive with us because they have a very well-trained work force. In the past, it has been precisely the most technologically advanced countries -- those with the highest productivity and highest rate of growth in value -- that have attracted the highest levels of foreign investment. However, there should be some coordination when establishing the basis for tax assessment.

SPIEGEL: Should Turkey also join Europe?

Zapatero: Yes, in the long term.

SPIEGEL: What does Muslim Turkey have in common with Europe's historic, cultural and political values?

Zapatero: The Turks also want to be European citizens. The European identity, after all, is based precisely on our idea of a civil society, and on the values of enlightenment and reason. That's why we respect diversity in religion, culture and language.

SPIEGEL: Don't you think there is a risk that Europe may cease to be a community of countries that share a common destiny, and will be reduced to nothing more than a free trade zone, an outcome that some -- the British, for example -- would actually welcome?

Zapatero: No, we are already a community that shares a political destiny. The way we see ourselves is not as important as the way the world sees us. In the Mediterranean region, in Black Africa, and in Latin America, people look to Europe as a model of a clearly defined unit. Countries are interested in entering into treaties with Europe as a whole. We just have to become much more aware of our importance.

SPIEGEL: But if a major EU crisis were to develop, possibly even leading to a split, would Spain join Germany and France in a core European project?

Zapatero: I don't think that we are heading toward such a significant crisis. But yes, we Spaniards would certainly want to be part of it. We want to build Europe's future side-by-side with France and Germany.

SPIEGEL: You pulled Spain's troops out of Iraq because you did not believe that this American war is justified. But won't Europe have to help the Americans extricate themselves from the chaos that threatens to engulf the entire Middle East region?

Zapatero: The Iraq war has been a failure. It would not be a good idea to violate international law and act against the wishes of the UN. The situation in Iraq is deteriorating from one day to the next. Now that the elections in the United States are over, the war coalition must finally enter into talks with the UN Security Council. The longer we wait to change this failed strategy, the worse the situation will become.

SPIEGEL: President George W. Bush, now reelected, once accused you of having encouraged the terrorists by withdrawing Spanish troops. How do you intend to resolve this transatlantic dispute?

Zapatero: Every popular referendum, even when it results in a reelection, introduces a new phase. For this new phase, I would like to see a deepening of cooperation between Europe and the United States, which is essential to peace and security in the world. Like most Europeans, we Spaniards believe that the world is better off when the United States and Europe are able to cooperate and depend on one another. Spain is willing to play an active role in strengthening transatlantic relations. More than ever, we would like to see this occur on the basis of an honest dialogue respectful of the principles and ideals of each party.

SPIEGEL: Bush is likely to ask the Europeans for their support in Iraq once again. Could the Europeans turn down his request that they send troops to Iraq under a UN mandate?

Zapatero: But troops are no longer the issue. I think there are already enough coalition troops in Iraq. Such military involvement is now completely out of the question for Spain.

SPIEGEL: On March 11, when Al Qaeda struck in Madrid, the Europeans realized that they too are a target of international terrorism. Isn't this in itself a sufficient reason for the Europeans to support the Americans more heavily in the war on terrorism?