SPIEGEL:

Mr. President, when you look in the mirror in the morning, do you ask yourself: Jose, wasn't it a huge mistake, trading in beautiful Lisbon for Brussels?

Barroso: Well, to quote Edith Piaf, "Je ne regrette rien." I, too, regret nothing and am very pleased to be here. I suppose that makes me a true European.

SPIEGEL: American President George W. Bush has not ruled out the possibility of launching preventive attacks against Iranian nuclear facilities. Three EU countries -- Germany, France and Great Britain -- are using negotiation in an attempt to dissuade Iran from going nuclear. Is the US pressure helpful, or is it counterproductive?

Barroso: The European Union took a leading role in efforts to achieve an agreement with Iran through negotiation. We have to make it clear to Tehran that they must abide by their commitments. My commission is doing its part. Even as we speak, negotiations are underway with Iran over a trade agreement and improved cooperation. Of course, the content of such an agreement will depend on what Iran can offer in return, in other areas, that is.

SPIEGEL: You supported the Iraq war. Do you feel deceived by the United States, now that the search for weapons of mass destruction has been officially called off?

Barroso: When I was prime minister, I told the Portuguese parliament at least five times that I was against war. But if a war develops between our close ally and a regime like that of Saddam Hussein, we will support America politically. I am not ashamed of this. Incidentally, I also told French President Jacques Chirac that if war breaks out tomorrow between France and a regime like Saddam's, I will support France, even if we do not agree on all issues.

SPIEGEL: Has the US president changed his opinion about Europeans?

Barroso: Washington is now sending out positive signals. We all learn from our experiences. Both sides are interested in setting aside their differences and bridging what was once a very large chasm, which, of course, also existed within the European Union. We are faced with major global challenges, such as terrorism, destruction of the environment, underdevelopment and pandemics. These problems cannot be solved without close cooperation between the world's two most important political and economic forces, the United States and the European Union. We should treat each other with respect and accept that we cannot agree on everything.

SPIEGEL: That approach is just as applicable to institutions within Europe. Do you plan to recapture the Commission's leadership role, as compared to the council of EU heads of state, a role it once held in the distant past?

Barroso: We now have 25 member states, a number that will soon increase to 27 and continue to grow after that. If the member states in this type of system did not accept a certain leadership role for the Commission, it would be catastrophic for Europe. This must be obvious. But I don't say this because I am the president of the Commission and because I want to see myself and the commission in charge of things.

SPIEGEL: Your predecessor, Romano Prodi, saw himself as the head of state of a European quasi-government. Do you feel the same way?

Barroso: No. We are not a European government. We have a right to initiate legislation, but most decisions are ultimately made by the European Council, the European Parliament and the Council of Ministers. I am not interested in enhancing the prestige or status of the Commission against the wishes of the member states, but rather with their participation. I was a member of the Council when we still had twelve member states. In a body that small, it was relatively easy to get one's own opinion across by arguing rationally. I've seen Germany, France, the Commission itself or individual commissioners change their positions in the course of a single session. This will be impossible in a body that will soon encompass 27 countries. We must give the Commission more latitude so that it can serve as an honest broker.

SPIEGEL: In our opinion, it's your responsibility to remain in constant contact with the individual governments, so that you can gain their confidence and prove that you can be a reliable negotiating partner. Prodi failed in this respect, eliciting complaints from German Chancellor Gerhard Schröder.

Barroso: He won't be able to complain about me. If you ask him whether Mr. Barroso has ever reneged on a promise, he'll tell you: no, never. Perhaps I don't promise very much, but when I do, I follow through.

SPIEGEL: Well that in itself is certainly a big promise!

Barroso: And one you can depend upon. I've developed my credibility over the years, and I plan to keep it. Reliability is very important. The Commission is completely unlike a national government, which derives its power from the ruling majority that voted it into office and is prepared to support it through thick and thin. In contrast, the Commission is very much on its own.

SPIEGEL: So it's not such a great job after all?

Barroso: This independence plays an important role. Each head of state claims that we need a strong Commission. But the minute the Commission does something against a country's national interests, the same people suddenly no longer want a strong Commission. When that happens, our independence becomes our strength. It guarantees our independence of opinion, our credibility and our authority.

SPIEGEL: You will soon be giving what amounts to your inaugural speech in the European parliament. What milestones do you intend to establish for the next five years?

Barroso: Most of all, I want to reconnect Europeans with European institutions. Many are skeptical about the euro, and even more are completely indifferent about Europe.

SPIEGEL: What are you doing about that?

Barroso: I believe that the most important thing for everyone in Europe today is economic growth, because that's what creates or secures jobs. Protecting the environment is important to many of our citizens, as is promoting culture and research, as well as the question of security. But the greatest common concern -- from Germany to Finland and from Latvia to Poland -- is about growth and jobs. I liked the metaphor EU Industry Commissioner Günter Verheugen recently used to describe the task we face: We have a house to repair. What's more important, that there are no holes in the house or that we give it nice windows? There is currently one big hole in the European house, and that is that it's becoming less competitive against its main competitors.

SPIEGEL: You are considered a dedicated neo-liberal in your country. Does this also describe the route you intend to take in Europe?

Barroso: Portugal was in a very tough situation. We have a large deficit, and people say that I brought the country back into line. I'm proud of that, but it certainly doesn't make me a neo-liberal. I was never a supporter of the right wing, and I don't plan on becoming one.

SPIEGEL: You were once even a disciple of Chinese revolutionary leader Mao Zedong.

Barroso: That was a long time ago. I'm a moderate, a reformer. I believe that the modern struggle between the left and the right is essentially a struggle between the old left and the old right on one side and the new left and the new right on the other. People from the old left and old right just want things to stay the same. All they care about are their own privileges, and not about the next generation.

SPIEGEL: What are you thinking of? Do you, like the founders of the European Union, Monnet, Schuman and De Gaspari, have a vision? In which direction should the European train travel?

Barroso: Well, it's already come a long way. What was our starting point after World War II? It was a demolished, divided and hostile Europe. And now? Would anyone have imagined, just ten years ago, that countries like Poland, Estonia and Lithuania, long dominated by Soviet totalitarianism, would now be free and independent members of the European Union? The reunification of our continent, which began with German reunification, is a tremendous achievement. Instead of talking about attractive visions, I prefer to say: Let us consolidate this process. And, in doing so, we must make sure that adding more members will not dilute the quality of the European Union and make it what it used to be, a loose-knit free trade zone. The concept of European solidarity must remain at the forefront.

SPIEGEL: This solidarity seems to be absent in the current finance negotiations, where everyone is just thinking about their own pocket book.

Barroso: I don't dispute that the financial situation is very difficult in some member states, especially the ones who pay the most in dues. But you should also remember that in recent years the European heads of state have all entered into joint obligations relating to structural and regional policies, the funding of agricultural policy, the development of European transportation networks. All of this costs money. Of course, the heads of state can say: Let's change our agricultural policy; that'll save billions. And they can also say things like: Let's forget about research funding, about expanding the railroad and highway system. Naturally, I'm not proposing these things. On the contrary. But if they want to do the things to which they've jointly agreed, they'll have to come up with the necessary funds.

SPIEGEL: Another controversial issue is the proposed reform of the EU Stability and Growth Pact. How do you feel about the proposal by the Germans, French and Italians to relax rigid debt ceilings?

Barroso: We can make adjustments, but we should not change the underlying laws, including the three percent deficit criterion. This kind of a change would shake the very foundation of the currency union. The Stability and Growth Pact was a tremendous achievement. Without it, we would never have gotten the euro, and the euro is the European Union's biggest success to date. I remember reading articles by some highly respected intellectuals, including Nobel Prize winners, especially on the other side of the Atlantic. They predicted that there would never be a euro. Well, now it's a reality, and for some people it's already become a little too strong.

SPIEGEL: Nevertheless, it's possible that individual European governments will simply adjust the debt ceilings to suit their needs in the future.

Barroso: That can never happen. It would be catastrophic for our economy. The fact that we have one of the lowest inflation rates in history in Europe today is not only attributable to the outstanding work of the independent European Central Bank, but also to the stability pact. However, price stability is not just the first condition for growth, but is also important for all working people, because it prevents their salaries from being devalued by inflation.